Rules Discussion: GENERAL

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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby Skillator » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:00 am

I love being a martial artist, but certain things mentioned so far remind me that this class is extraordinarily lucky in its powers options and stats.
I would voluntarily accept a 2 range for martial artists (if even that) rather than a four. Sure some martial artists throw batons and throwing stars, but really there should be a lot more risk involved in attacking and more range can be bought if that's important to you. That might even the odds between the shooters and the punchers.
As far as you ranged assholes getting more advantages: consider the fact that you get to attack once, perhaps twice or more before most characters can lay a hand on you unless you position yourself badly. Odds are good you won't be taking nearly as much damage as the rest of us. You will manage to stay at your top clix for more of the game... so those top clix really ought to be carefully monitored.
Don't ya think?
I say instead of helping make classes more terrifying, make other classes less terrrifying.
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby LionKingXXVII » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:25 am

Skillator wrote:I love being a martial artist, but certain things mentioned so far remind me that this class is extraordinarily lucky in its powers options and stats.
I would voluntarily accept a 2 range for martial artists (if even that) rather than a four. Sure some martial artists throw batons and throwing stars, but really there should be a lot more risk involved in attacking and more range can be bought if that's important to you. That might even the odds between the shooters and the punchers.
As far as you ranged assholes getting more advantages: consider the fact that you get to attack once, perhaps twice or more before most characters can lay a hand on you unless you position yourself badly. Odds are good you won't be taking nearly as much damage as the rest of us. You will manage to stay at your top clix for more of the game... so those top clix really ought to be carefully monitored.
Don't ya think?
I say instead of helping make classes more terrifying, make other classes less terrrifying.


Hmmm...that last bit was AWESOMELY refreshing. I will volunteer to make all classes less terrifying. I totally think that is the way to go. I believe that if they were less terrifying then the battles would be much more gritty and suspenseful. I want that in a game much more than everyone swinging twice and the battle is done. We do have to scale back the stats a bit I do believe. We all know that powers in Heroclix are important but stats are also equally or perhaps more important. Maybe Jon can scale back the stat rewards for next session...keep the BPs as is for now. Maybe that will keep people from becoming stat monsters. (Although some already are) :( :( :(

As for the range thing LD. We all know that range is sick overpowered in Heroclix already. I'm just appallled at Rob's constant push for MORE power than he already has. :wink: :P :D
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby ozmosis » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:20 am

I agree with Leo, less terrifying figs should provide for more Royal Rumble style action when the Heroes and Villains meet up. I spent nearly two weeks trying to figure out what archtype to play based on the current rules - I think the powers, build progressions and stat caps (martial artist aside) are very well balanced.

Given how few Build Points we gain per scenario, (3 per win, 2 per loss) I'm not sure how anyone can ever gain enough BP's to ever abuse HSS or Impervious as things stand now when everyone (except speedsters for HSS) have to pay 15 points per click plus a click of life. And let's face it, who in their right mind is scared of a speedster that only inflicts 1 DMG all the way down their dial???

Now, someone could jam all of their BP onto one click to get the dreaded HSS/SS/Impv/Flight/12AV/4dmg/10 range super click, but that basically means that they have nothing for the remainder of their dial. And let's not forget that all of the powers can be outwitted (another freakishly abusive power in this format). We are all pretty good at math and heroclix - I'm sure that if the Villains ever encountered a figure with the stats above, that fig would get knocked off that click VERY VERY quickly. It's only been one week into the campaign, why don't we just play it out for a few more weeks (apart from the SS for Martial Artists errata which should be corrected) and see how the archtypes develop? If one or two become abusively powerful, it will soon be apparent and we can adjust later. I think most of the guys are really good sports and would adjust their builds to make for a more balanced campaign. Kudos to Little Dave for volunteering to reduce range. LD, if I have a chance to smack either you or Leo for 5 DMG with a heavy object, I will pancake Leo OK??

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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby radone » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:29 pm

I do agree that range is good in this game but newer maps have really made it easy to avoid long distance range. A 8 range is usually plenty and 6 useful most of the time.
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby Mysterious Stranger » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:39 pm

LionKingXXVII wrote:As for the range thing LD. We all know that range is sick overpowered in Heroclix already. I'm just appallled at Rob's constant push for MORE power than he already has. :wink: :P :D

I'll add it to the rule book that only Bricks and Speedsters are allow to cry about their own archetype... :twisted:
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby LionKingXXVII » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:43 pm

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
LionKingXXVII wrote:As for the range thing LD. We all know that range is sick overpowered in Heroclix already. I'm just appallled at Rob's constant push for MORE power than he already has. :wink: :P :D

I'll add it to the rule book that only Bricks and Speedsters are allow to cry about their own archetype... :twisted:

DEFINITELY not Bricks, Shooters, Gadgeteers, or Martial Artists so far...SPEEDSTERS do kind of blow chunks right now. Especially if they can't get ARMOR PIERCING. I'm not even afraid of Avarice right now. :wink:
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby donveersingh » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:25 am

To avoid massive frontloading, why don't the stat bonuses alternate between front and back(or at least not on the first click or two.)?
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby Tofer » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:59 am

donveersingh wrote:To avoid massive frontloading, why don't the stat bonuses alternate between front and back(or at least not on the first click or two.)?


Or cut the quantity of them in half, along with the +1 Click bonus?
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby DarkestThicket » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:01 am

I was going to do that too.
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby LionKingXXVII » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:09 pm

I want to see this...and YES it's all about me.

I would really like to see the stat bonuses go +1 or MAX 2 per session...and maybe an extra click once every two sessions? That will keep the game fast and fun. Whereby no one really has a SUPER front loaded character that kills you with it's alpha strike. I am thinking that BPs are less dangerous to hand out and thus the 8 to 10 range a session is probably going to be fine. Just my 2 cents...but they are MINE!!! :D :D :D
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby radone » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:53 pm

You could have it so you can't have a stat 2 higher than any stat on your first 1/2 of the dial. So if you have a 1 damage somewhere in the start of your dial you would have to increase it to 2 before you could have a damage of 4. This would create rounding out of characters especially with the addional clix makeing your 1st half or your dial bigger.
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby donveersingh » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:16 pm

LionKingXXVII wrote:I want to see this...and YES it's all about me.

I would really like to see the stat bonuses go +1 or MAX 2 per session...and maybe an extra click once every two sessions? That will keep the game fast and fun. Whereby no one really has a SUPER front loaded character that kills you with it's alpha strike. I am thinking that BPs are less dangerous to hand out and thus the 8 to 10 range a session is probably going to be fine. Just my 2 cents...but they are MINE!!! :D :D :D

I agree with new clicks every two sessions, but cutting the stat bonuses in half would be brutal. You would never be able to develop your backdial at all. Simply alternate front to back.
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby ozmosis » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:49 pm

Jon, if we are now lobbying for archtype changes, then I would like to request that the Battlesuit be allowed Invulnerability as a primary power and Impervious as a secondary power. Most battlesuits I can think of have Invulnerability at the very least on their starting dial, and Impervious (Iron Man, Lex Luthor) on several renditions of the figure. If you are going to wear a power suit, you should be at least able to shrug off the fist of a martial artist without him/her using a fancy gadget or power right?

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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby Mysterious Stranger » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:52 pm

As per previous discussions, Game Balance > Emulating Comics. :)

We can't build Superman, Thor, The Flash, or the Hulk, so I'm okay with Lex and Iron Man also being off the table.

Now if you think the archetype needs help...?
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby LionKingXXVII » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:48 pm

donveersingh wrote:
LionKingXXVII wrote:I want to see this...and YES it's all about me.

I would really like to see the stat bonuses go +1 or MAX 2 per session...and maybe an extra click once every two sessions? That will keep the game fast and fun. Whereby no one really has a SUPER front loaded character that kills you with it's alpha strike. I am thinking that BPs are less dangerous to hand out and thus the 8 to 10 range a session is probably going to be fine. Just my 2 cents...but they are MINE!!! :D :D :D

I agree with new clicks every two sessions, but cutting the stat bonuses in half would be brutal. You would never be able to develop your backdial at all. Simply alternate front to back.


Dude...I think that this will LIMIT front loading anyways...if you front load...I promise you after you get hit ONCE you're done. So the "smart" people will definitely space out their stat boosts...I totally think that if you want to FRONT load that's fine but you had better be aware that you're toast after the first strike. Good luck to you. :wink:
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby radone » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:31 am

Since we are lobbying I propose that Shapeshifters should get Giant as a primary power. At least one Archetype should get it and it seems that they would get it.
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Re: Rules Discussion: GENERAL

Postby DarkestThicket » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:40 am

I think they were meant to have it. I may have over looked that.
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