Modify vs increase

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Modify vs increase

Postby DarkestThicket » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:28 am

2012 Rulebook page 5: Modifiers use the word “modify” or “modifies”.

2012 Rulebook page 7: Whenever the sum of all modifiers applied to a single combat value is greater than +3 or less than -3, the sum of all modifiers is instead +3 or -3, respectively. All modifiers continue to apply to the combat value; only their sum is changed. This rule only applies to modifiers,

2012 Rulebook page 10: If you roll a 12 ( ) on an attack roll, you automatically hit the target, regardless of what you needed to roll to hit. This is called a critical hit. A critical
hit increases damage dealt by 1 to each successfully hit target.

Hannibal King: FORM OF MIST, FORM OF WOLF: Hannibal King can use Running Shot and Stealth. At the beginning of your turn you may choose to increase Hannibal King's attack or defense value by 1 or 2; if you do, then decrease the other combat value by the same amount until your next turn.

Rhino: HEAD DOWN, HORN UP: Rhino can use Charge. When he does, he automatically breaks away and if he moves only in a straight horizontal, vertical, or diagonal path and hits a character along that path, roll a d6; increase Rhino's damage value by half the result.


So...Heroclix is all about words and specific words at that. Similar to the difference between move and place does this mean that Rhino and King can still be Perplexed by +3 for each of their respected increased stats since the rule book does not include "increase" in the modify section and it specifically mentions only the words "modify" or "modifies" because this is the same argument as move vs place. Things are being moved to a different position on the board but can circumvent their rulings of "can not be moved" because they are being placed.

Can something circumvent the rule of three because the word used is "increase" and not "modify" taking into account the rule book specifically uses quotation marks to note which words affect it? If we read the rulebook and take it at it's word Rhino, on a critical hit on this team:

128 ASM020 Rhino
24 ASM048 Madame Web
30 ASM023 Wong
75 ASM050 Hornet
38 IH003 A.I.M. Agent
295

Is potentially making a 12 AV swing (perplex from Web) to deal 11 damage, 4 for base damage, roll a 6 for a 3 damage increase, modify +3 damage with perplex (from Wong, Hornet, AIM Agent), increase damage by 1 for a critical hit.
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Re: Modify vs increase

Postby LionKingXXVII » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:06 am

I am not sure. However, I was always under the impression that after perplexing damage up three times that a critical hit would still increase the final damage dealt. So if this was true and it was due to the wording of "INCREASE" then your statement would likely be true. The sad part is I'm not sure Wizkids ever really knows themselves until someone brings it up and they have to make a ruling. It's too bad because they sure do like to add more and more game mechanics into the game. :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Modify vs increase

Postby DarkestThicket » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:07 pm

I've put it to the Realms and they seem to be all "you're making the number bigger so it's totally modifying" but I don't see how that is different from move/place since they both result in a piece being moved from one spot to another. Crit damage increases damage dealt not directly modifying the damage value, but Defend still results in an increase to a characters DV (or decrease depending on what you're using it for) without actually modifying it.
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Re: Modify vs increase

Postby DarkestThicket » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:55 pm

The glossary further defines modifiers as: "A number that increases or decreases a combat value, damage dealt, or damage taken." so I'll bow to the consensus of Rhino isn't stupid broken.
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Re: Modify vs increase

Postby radone » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:34 pm

I've always explained it as if you were taking a number and making it another number it was Replace. If you are adding or subtracting to it is Modify.
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Re: Modify vs increase

Postby DarkestThicket » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:57 pm

Yeah, it just seems weird that two figures would say something different from every other modify in the set. I totally thought it would be the same as place/move because the result was basically the same. A change would occur that could be called something else. It's similar to the "can use" = "must(ish) use" where it's all about wordology. Kinda hoping that it would be new terminology that made Rhino crazy-sick-awesome.
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